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Talk:Kohl settlement
Rename suggestion for "Kohl planet" and "Kohl" I think the naming of these two pages is based on misunderstanding. The Term "Kohl" is used exactly once in the episode, when Viorsa introduces himself as "planner for the Kohl settlement". From this the assumption was made that the planet/settlement was an unnamed settlement by a species called the Kohl. But if you think about it, it's pretty weird that the guy would speak of his home in a generic term, rather then using the actual name which it undoubtedly has. I feel it's a much more logical conclusion that "Kohl settlement" is the formal name of the tradepost. The encyclopedia uses this name too. Furthermore, there is no evidence that the species are called the Kohl - and arguably a species with that name would not confusingly call an outpost "Kohl settlement". The assertion that the species is called the Kohl is neither backed by startrek.com nor by the encyclopedia (though admittedly the latter has entries for the individual trapped individual under such generic terms as "Kohl physician" - but that could just as easily be taken to refer to them being from the Kohl settlement as a Kohl species). So, in conclusion, I think it would make sense to move "Kohl planet" to Kohl settlement, and "Kohl" to Viorsa's species (after the only named member) (additionally, "Unnamed Kohl" would have to be moved accordingly too). On a sidenote, sorry for always making these kinds of arguments so long. Just trying to cover my bases. -- Capricorn (talk) 02:21, May 21, 2016 (UTC) :I agree with these suggestions. Btw, the episode's script doesn't use the term "Kohl" any more than in that single of dialogue. -- Defiant (talk) 08:54, May 21, 2016 (UTC) ::Better to have a long, well thought out rationale than none at all or a faulty slapdash one. Support rename. -- LauraCC (talk) 17:26, May 24, 2016 (UTC) :::I think the rename may have been premature. The Star Trek Voyager Companion has the following sentences: :::Although the Clown spares Kim, the pair suddenly understands how the '''Kohl' could literally be frightened to death in the surprisingly realistic situation. Because the Clown's survival depends on the colonist's minds remaining linked to the sensory system, the Kohl - and now Kim and Torres - cannot awaken because the Clown will not allow it.'' :::Sounds like Kohl is the name of the species. --NetSpiker (talk) 04:36, October 17, 2016 (UTC) :::: If you were leaving a message for others, you would identify yourself with as much relevant information possible, stating some random proper name (like "Kohl") is meaningless to most, if it isn't intended to describe who you are. By the way, it was "the Kohl settlement" not just "Kohl settlement" and for that matter, not the formal proper "Kohl Settlement" either. There are examples paralleling what's described of the Kohl, where "the ___ settlement" is of a species: ::::* "A militant splinter group has broken away from the Bajoran settlement camps." ( ) ::::* "We're headed for the Tzenkethi settlement on M'kemas III." ( ) ::::* "The Human settlements are clustered within a few hundred kilometers of your location." ( ) :::: "I am Viorsa, planner for the Kohl settlement" fits that same mold, and I'm still inclined to believe that is the name of the species as well. --Alan (talk) 05:27, March 31, 2018 (UTC) Inclined to believe isn't the standard though. Either its unambiguously clear from the episode makes it clear or we have to say don't know for certain. -- Capricorn (talk) 22:29, March 31, 2018 (UTC) :::: Using the aforementioned pattern as explained above provides a better explanation than not, this after Voyager was said to have scanned the formerly populated settlement, not the planet, per se. There is so much more common sense in that, then forcing doubt down our throats calling the terminology used the name of the planet. This should be the name of the settlement, the planet unnamed and the species more likely than not, with a bgnote explaining why (stated above) on the species name. --Alan (talk) 08:04, February 14, 2019 (UTC) It is blatantly unfair to say I shoved something down "our" throats when my rename suggestion got two supports, both from established users, and zero opposes, during a period of more then a month before the rename was made not by me but by an admin. But on a more constructive note, here is something that might actually lead me to reconsider: you've given three examples of places named on the pattern of "word settlement". But in each case these lines were spoken by outsiders, and both them and us were also already familiar with the species name. That makes the situation different enough that I don't think those examples say much about this case. Can you give examples where for example a Bajoran ''currently a resident of '' a Bajoran camp calls their place "the Bajoran camp"? And then can you give examples where instead of a Bajoran, it is a member of a species never named before or after? -- Capricorn (talk) 19:02, February 14, 2019 (UTC)